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EP 92: Good People. Good Money. Derrick Kinney, Founder Good Money Framework

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This week on The Millionaire Choice Podcast, Tony talks with Derrick Kinney, successful financial advisor and founder of Good Money Framework. Tony and Derrick discuss doing good, the mindset of millionaires, and making your money work for you.

Derrick grew up in a lower middle-class family. With a hard working 9-to-5 father, he remembers how hard his parents worked just to get by. For example, when all he had to wear to his baseball games were “goofy looking blue tennis shoes” while his entire team sported fresh cleats.

About Derrick Kinney

After boldly selling his successful financial planning business, Derrick launched Good Money Framework and the popular Good Money Podcast, where he interviews the world’s top business professionals, influencers, authors, and leaders to inspire listeners to build their net worth for good.

Derrick believes money is not bad, and good people — just like you — should have more of it to do more good in the world. His mission is to teach others how negative beliefs about money are holding them back, and how to change their money mindset for the better. Helping make complex financial topics easy-to-understand.

Learn more about Derrick Kinney,

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Show Transcript

Tony (00:00):

Welcome back to the Millionaire Choice show. Today on the show, I'm really excited to be introducing you future millionaires out there to Derrick Kinney. Derrick and I have just met for the first time here in the last 15 minutes. And man, does he have a great story and a great heart. He's gonna bring something new that you all;, I don't think I've heard on the show before; and I'm eager to give him the floor and let him share his heart about money with you. He is the author of Good Money Revolution and is host of the Good Money podcast. So, if you were looking for another money podcast to listen to, check out the Good Money podcast. I'm sure it's gonna be a good one for you all to check out. Now, another thing you need to know about Derrick is that he formally owned his own financial advisory business, and sold it just a little while ago, but before he sold it, he was actually named by Forbes as one of the top financial advisors in the country. So, we're in for a real treat on the show today. Welcome to show Derrick.

Derrick Kinney (00:55):

Thanks for having me. I can see why your listeners love the content because we connect so well. I think this is gonna be a really engaging fun conversation.

Tony (01:06):

Yeah, I appreciate that. Now, you have your own show, so you've been doing this for a while. This isn't your first rodeo; helping people with their money; but you didn't grow up in just a wealthy family. I think like so many of us, a lot of times people look at millionaires and go, "oh, you were so fortunate. You had the silver spoon. You had the pedigree. You had the home life," and that's just not the truth; 80% of the millionaires in the United States are first generation millionaires. I'm one of those, I believe you're one of those as well, but it seems like the concept of money and building wealth actually clicked for you a lot sooner than it did for me.

Derrick Kinney (01:43):

Well, it's interesting. Cause growing up, I just liked money. It was fun to make it. It was also fun to give it, but growing up I'd say I was in a lower middle-class household. Most people wanna tell the story of, "I walked uphill, in the snow both ways, and had to carry a bake potato to keep warm, and eat that for lunch, and do that again the next day." It wasn't a story like that, but what I realized was I had a mom and a dad who deeply cared about my sister and I, but my dad was a nine-to-five person. So, he would work really hard from nine to five, but there wasn't any additional money above that. I remember playing baseball now. I was not the best baseball player. I was the baseball player that the mom or dad pushed on the team and really wasn't that good.

Derrick Kinney (02:35):

So to compound it, we went down to Kmart the morning of and bought these blue sneakers; it was all we could afford. I get to the dugout; all the players have their nice white, fresh cleats. So, here the worst player on the team stands out with these goofy looking blue tennis shoes. I mean, all those things were just symptomatic of, "I want this story to end and I'm ready to write a new chapter for it." So, that's really how I viewed money. Money was a doorway; not to just make a ton of it to pad my bank account and feel super rich, but it was a way to have a lifestyle I wanted, and then it allowed me to give to some of the causes I deeply cared about. A funny thing happened. It allowed me to keep making more money because I wanted to give more to the causes, which drove me to make more money, which allowed me to give more to the causes. So, it was a beautiful concept. One that I think a lot of business owners listening can apply to their business as well.

Tony (03:36):

Yeah. I love your heart around that. I don't wanna pass on it because there's a wonderful book out called Blessed Life by Robert Morris, and it comes from the same vein that I think where your heart's at; which is, you developed very early, a sense of giving. So, that was really what made your drive for finances and to build your financial future. That's a rare thing. Most people don't look at the purpose; develop their purpose; that young. It sounds like you had a purpose behind your money at a very young age.

Derrick Kinney (04:08):

Well, I did. Now, part of it sort of happened to me. So, let me take you to college; I graduated at the university of Texas at Arlington as a communication major. I took one finance class in college. I realized not many people were looking to pay big bucks to a liberal arts graduate. So, the jobs I took were either the fundraiser for the United Way, or working as a marketing person. So, I go to work for a marketing company, and I'm the one non-engineer there. All these guys are bringing their dogs to work. They've got the ponytails, the shorts, the flip flops, and I'm a nice dress-it-up kind of guy. So, I'm there about a year, and this is the type of company where the boss would come to us on Friday and say, "Hey, by the way; Saturday; tomorrow's gonna be a Workday.

Derrick Kinney (04:56):

We need to catch up on stuff," and I would just melt because I'd already had plans made with my wife, and had to call her and say, honey, the boss said, tomorrow's a Workday, but I think really the sort of the needle that broke the camel's back was our paychecks bounced twice. So, imagine writing your tithing check to your local church, and you realize, "I just wrote a hot check to my church." That was terrible. So, when that happened a second time, I really took a hard look at things. What I realized was; and this was an epiphany for me; that my dad faced a fork in the road much like I did in this moment. The fork was; I could choose to work for someone else, and let them dictate how much I'm worth according to them in the form of a yearly raise or a bonus; those kind of things; or I could put all the chips on the table and back myself against the wall, and go make something happen.

Derrick Kinney (05:51):

I realized both pathways had pros and cons, but one of them clearly had more upside because I really believed in myself, and that's what I chose to do. So, while I was working full time, I began to go back and get licensed as a financial advisor. Like I said, I took one class in college, but I just had a desire to help people. I realized I could learn, and that the learning would eventually catch up with my desire to help people. It took about six months to get fully license and take the jump. People told me, "Derrick, you're gonna fail. You don't have enough money in cash reserves to build a business. You're not gonna make it." It was all of that negative commentary that really fueled me for positive results. Now, you can't live there long term. I don't think you can just say, "Hey, because the world's against me, I'm gonna go make a lot of money," but I use that as fuel to say, "you will not tell me if I will fail, and you will not tell me what my worth is. I wanna dictate those things myself so I can really do more good for those clients and for the world."

Tony (07:01):

Yeah. I love the concept. There is risk. You took on a risk, but you understood the potential upside there. I think that's something. When I think about, my career and where I've been, you could put 15 years into somebody else's business at which time you may or may not get let go. What do you get to take forward with you? You get to take forward your experience that you had. Hopefully that's worth something. But, you've put 15 years of your life into something that you don't yourself own and therefore can be taken away from you. I think that's a newer thing for me because I grew up with a job mentality. My parents worked really hard. My mom and dad always worked for someone else. I worked with them, so I learned a good, solid, strong work ethic, but the concept of working for yourself or having that amount of freedom is something that's only been new to me in the last five or six years.

Tony (07:54):

The interesting thing about that; I'm sure you'll say this too; is the amount of freedom you have to come and go as you want and do things with your family. You still have obligations, but it really takes you a while to get your head around that. It's like a different place. It's like a different world almost. And, I think for people that haven't been there, it's hard to understand. "You mean I don't have to settle for three weeks vacation a year? You mean I can go spend three months in Florida every summer with my kids and my family? What are you talking about?" That's something totally different. So, have you been able to take advantage of that side of not having a job and being able to have more freedom?

Derrick Kinney (08:40):

Yes. It's interesting because looking back on my dad; he lived in a world of being told what to do, and he was such an encouragement to me. He would always say, "nothing ventured, nothing gained." And, he would always talk about taking risk and making money, yet he would come to the precipice and couldn't do it. I remember my mom asking me one time, just outta pure curiosity she said, "Derrick, are you a millionaire?" And, the moment my mom asked me that question, it flooded me with so many emotions because I said, "yeah." In my world, that didn't mean a whole lot because I knew that what it took to get to the first million, and then the second, and the third, it just advanced in levels. But, she was raised with, "if you're a millionaire, then you're set."

Derrick Kinney (09:33):

So, we saw the word millionaire from two different paradigms. My dad would often say- he died about a year and a half ago- He would say, "Derrick, how did you take so much risk? I don't understand how you could do all that." And, when I told him, "well dad, you take one risk, and then you typically take a step back and you move even further forward. Then you take a second risk having learned what you did from the first risk, and you're basically de-risking as you're taking on more risk." He really couldn't get his head around that, but I realized you have to take risk to then have less risk on your next risk, because you're betting on yourself at deeper levels every step that you're moving up that ladder. So, I think back even as a financial advisor; my first acquisition was a financial planning practice in Dallas, and this would've doubled our size, and there was no way I could afford it, but I just prayed.

Derrick Kinney (10:31):

"God, if you want me to buy this, I'm gonna keep moving forward. You keep either opening the door or closing the door. And, the door kept opening and kept opening. Then bank financing completely fell through. I had to have a relative; I didn't have much money back then; loan me the down payment for it, but it began the cash flow like that. Now, there were some dark times we faced; almost bankruptcy. The advisors we bought it from violated their non-compete agreements. I began to hemorrhage cash; lose clients. It was a terrible situation, but I felt like God said, "Derrick, through this situation, you're going to become a better leader and draw closer to me," and those were two things that I definitely had happened to me. I'm so thankful because of all the lessons I learned in that. But, out of that I kept saving money and kept saving money. The market was in a free fall then, but when things turned back around; that period of time, that two year period when it was the worst business wise turned out to be some of the best financial wise, because I didn't let a business tragedy also become an investment tragedy as well. If that makes sense.

Tony (11:39):

Oh, I love it. I love the way you put that too. Especially with your dad when you were talking about de-risking. I think a lot of people don't understand how to take that first step. And, the reality is- I guess the best way to say it is like when I was 25- using this example for your future millionaires listening- it's not that you have to have all the answers. It's not that you even have to be that smart. What you have to do is get going in the right direction. By going in the right direction, you can take; like Derrick said; that next step. Then, once you get that step; there's a little risk involved in that. Then you can see the step after that, and then you can see the step after that.

Tony (12:15):

And, sometimes there might be steps back, but you take two or three steps forward. You maybe take one step back. That's okay. You're gonna make mistakes. We all make mistakes. Hopefully they're not fatal mistakes. Those are the ones you wanna avoid. Mistakes are okay. Fatal mistakes are not okay. You just keep moving forward. But, the reality is no one ever saw. I still remember working with Dave Ramsey. I love those early days; 30 employees. I remember Dave Ramsey going, "I never wanted employees." I still remember that. Do you know how many employees he has today? Like over a thousand.

Derrick Kinney (12:49):

For sure.

Tony (12:50):

He couldn't see a thousand employees when he started doing what he was doing; helping people with their money and teaching; all he could do is see the next step. You make the next best decision you can. The next best decision. You grow along the way, and like you were saying; it's, de-risking along the way, because you're not gonna make the big "bet the farm" decision early in your process. You're gonna make smaller decisions that you're competent to make. And, I love to say that I started saying this, "invest at the competency level that you have," don't go out and leverage the farm, or do a lot of high level leverage on deals because you're just not competent at that level.

Tony (13:30):

What you gotta do is operate where you're competent at so that you can build experience and knowledge along the way. I think the other thing, that I hear about you; I didn't hear you say this, but I'm sure happened; is attaching yourself to people that are going in the direction that you wanna go. As you did your business deals, did you figure that out along the way on your own, or did you happen to get attached to some people that could guide you or help pull you along your path?

Derrick Kinney (13:56):

Yeah. One of the things I learned- first of all, just because someone is older than you doesn't mean they're wiser than you. Number two; just because someone is older age wise and been in the business longer doesn't mean they always know exactly what to do. And, third; you can often learn as much from people who do really dumb things in the business you're in versus the ones that do really successful things. Because sometimes it's about not doing certain things that can move you up the ladder. So, let me go back to the Dallas acquisition. Once we got that in place and things began to grow again, that was a really, really dark time; just to be candid. It was hard because I questioned, "did I make the right decision?" I remember my wife and I talking one night, and it was one of those really critical moments.

Derrick Kinney (14:50):

She said, "Derrick, you've never run from any challenge. You've always run into it." That motivation caused me to say, "you know what, not many other people; A) would choose to double their practice on an acquisition. B) Not many other people have this type of adversity they're facing right now. Therefore, how you're feeling; that crunchy feeling, that nervousness, that worry is real, and it's also very normal." That's the normal way to feel when all has turned against you. So, just take it one step at a time, one step at a time. Let me share a story with you. Let me go about 15 years later now. I was in my office catching up on a Saturday morning, and my boss hadn't told me to be there. Now, I'm there because I'm the boss, and wanted to be there; just for the record.

Derrick Kinney (15:36):

I saw my voicemail light blinking, and I began to just hear a voice inside say, "Derrick, you need to listen to this message." I pressed the button and to my shock and horror was a frantic woman's voice that said, "Derrick, you have to call me back today. I bounced a check and I'm going to jail." Well, my gosh- what in the world? I'd never heard somebody say, "I bounced a check and I'm going to jail." So, I knew I needed to call her back right then. This couldn't wait until Monday. We know that bad news doesn't tend to get any better with age. So, I called her back and I said, "tell me what happened with the check." "First of all, I forgot to move money from my savings to checking, and I wrote a check on it, and I got a non-sufficient funds letter in the mail, and I'm in trouble and I'm going to jail." I said, "okay, first of all, I'll call the bank with you Monday as a courtesy, we'll move the money and take care of that."

Derrick Kinney (16:28):

But I said, "second of all, why in the world are you saying you're gonna go to jail?" So, she begins to tell me this story. She's 55 years old. She tells me when she was seven years old, she overheard her dad receiving a phone call from the manager of a store that he had just bought some clothes at and accidentally wrote a hot check there, and didn't move the money either. And the store manager said, "because you bounce a check, I'm gonna call the cops, and I'm gonna put you in jail." So, as a seven year old girl, she equated; If you bounce a check, you go to jail. Now, when I began to hear her say that it was an epiphany for me, because this was a woman who on the outside looked successful, but mentally; was held back financially; wouldn't take risks. She wouldn't buy the investments that I had suggested that had done very, very well, but she could make the decision.

Derrick Kinney (17:23):

What happened was, she began to share with me; as we began to dig deeper into this; her money beliefs were based on that. She wasn't good enough or smart enough. That she simply wasn't going to do well with money. That's how she lived her life. That was her belief system. So, for anyone listening right now; especially those that want to aspire to be a millionaire; you have to analyze, "how do you see money right now?" And, why is it important to you; just to say, "I wanna be a millionaire." And, when you get there, you're gonna realize it's a lonely place because there's not a whole lot of other people with you. And, there's not a cause as to what you can actually contribute to at that point, it really make a difference. So, what it taught me was; I needed to believe that money was good.

Derrick Kinney (18:11):

Money was not bad. More of it was better, but not for how much I could build up in the bank account. I always said that "two commas was better than one, but for the good that I could do in the world." And, that's what motivated me. Even when I grew my business, I then began to give money to local schools. I would recognize a teacher of the month and a student of the month because in my local alma mater. I wished someone had come back to my school, and had done that for me, and just breathed belief in me. So, I wanted to do that for this next generation. So, I give a $25 gift card to the student; $50 gift card to the teacher. You would've thought that these people won the lottery. I mean, this was $75 to me, but for them it was like a huge dollar amount.

Derrick Kinney (18:57):

But, what I realized was somebody was expressing belief in them. So, back in the day we had what are called newspapers. So, I would take a picture of myself and the principal and the student, and then a picture of myself and the principal and the teacher, and put that in the local newspaper. Well, I began to get phone calls from people saying, "Hey, Derrick, we want to have you as our financial advisor." Well, the first couple calls I thought, "Hey, great. Good luck for me." But then, I finally said, "look, if you don't mind me asking why out of all the advisors in town, did you call me?" And they said, "Derrick, we've heard you're good with money, and you're a good advisor, but we like the work you're doing with education. We wanna work with someone who cares about the same things we do. We like education; you like education. I think we can work really well together." That was the birth that I write about now in my book, Good Money Revolution, that I call the Generosity Purpose. It's now picking out a cause that you care deeply about sharing that with your customers or clients and letting them be part of a bigger story; not just buying your product or service, but how they can be part of something bigger. So, you're actually making more money and doing more good and it deepens those customer relationships.

Tony (20:13):

Yeah. I love the whole story behind that. It's so powerful; how you connect mentally with money and with people. So, you walked away from your financial advisory business, and that just happened in the last 12 months?

Derrick Kinney (20:30):

I actually sold the business January of 2020, and let me go back a quick second there. So, every year I go away on what I call a sabbatical. I take about five days completely by myself, somewhere in the U.S., and I ask myself three questions. How can I be a better husband? How can I be a better father? How can I be a better business owner? Those three questions guide me in that time because my rationalization is that I wanna take one week and really get strategic so that the other 51 weeks I run really fast. I'm running toward what it is I really, really want. That helps me make more money and do more good. So, this particular time, I'm at the W hotel in Boston, Massachusetts, and I just feel like God was really working on my mind as, "do I wanna stay a financial advisor, or is it time to sell and move on to something else?"

Derrick Kinney (21:28):

I always enjoyed, TV, radio, and writing; could I take my message to a bigger platform? As I sat in the hotel that day, I began to write out "what are the things I would enjoy doing?" And I wrote out; write a book, launch a podcast, speak, coach, consult, and; to my surprise; not being a financial advisor. It wasn't that I didn't enjoy it; didn't love my clients; but I just realized I had sort of lost the passion for that, and I would be doing them a disservice if I stayed in that role because they needed someone who had a fresh perspective and the enthusiasm. I really wanted to sell that and put my back against the wall and move forward into this next venture. So, that's where I'm at right now; a year and a half into it.

Tony (22:16):

Well, congratulations on making the jump. I think the thing that I hear knowing this business and reaching people after working with the Ramsey organization is; you're reaching a force multiplier. So, you're very limited in the amount of people. You can help as a financial advisor, but you're virtually unlimited in the amount of people you can help through your books and your process. So, I'm eager to see what it will look like in five years after you've been out there taking everything you've been equipped with on the front end; the financial knowledge, the heart of giving that you have, making a difference in people's lives. And, you're able to build up your platform through the books, your show, and anything else you may end up developing. So, where are you? You've been at this for a while. What are some of the biggest money problems you've seen that you've helped people deal with; the most common things that train-wreck them; that keep them from getting on the right track and building wealth.

Derrick Kinney (23:12):

One of the things that I find is that people determine that they're either financially successful or unsuccessful where they are in their life right now. So, let's say someone is 25, but they made some really bad money decisions. They begin to think, "I'm just not good with money." Or, somebody who's 55 that thinks, "I haven't saved enough. There's no hope for me. I can't do anything." I really wanna be a hope dealer to people right now and say, "look, just because you haven't made the money moves you want- your past has passed." There's many stories of people who become wildly successful in the latter part of their lives because they didn't allow what happened in the first part of their lives hold them back; rather, they use that as a teaching tool for them to learn from; to then really take "multiplier type" of steps.

Derrick Kinney (24:05):

One of the things I see- and this is what concerns me the most. If you were to ask me, "Derrick, what's your biggest financial worry right now?" That is; I meet so many adults that haven't done as well financially as they want. They feel like they have no voice and no platform; no legitimacy at all to tell their kids or grandkids about money. And so, now what happens is we've got one generation; that didn't do as well as they wanted to; watching the next generation not do as well financially because they feel like, "what do I have to tell them?" That, to me, is the pathway to generational disaster. I believe; right now; this next generation has the potential to be the most affluent prosperous generation. Not just because of the technology and the opportunities out there.

Derrick Kinney (24:55):

But, if the generation; like myself; can get past themselves and realize the mistakes you've made with your money; the goof ups, the really dumb. Things you've done can actually be tremendous vulnerability lessons for your kids and grandkids. It's powerful to let them know, Hey, don't do this; do this. Let me give you an example. Back when COVID first occurred; March or April of 2020; all our kids are back home. Again, it was like this redo, back when everybody was in high school together, all around the table, and we'd go around the table and talk about your day and everybody would give a report. But, I realized when they would say, "Hey dad, how was your day?" "It was good. I worked with some clients- did this." Okay, not a big deal; box checked; onto the next person, but the days where I said, "guys, you're not gonna believe this. I really screwed up today. I really made a bad decision."

Derrick Kinney (25:44):

Suddenly all eyes were glued on dad. It was this golden teaching moment that I just had to get past myself and say, "yeah, I made this investment. I lost some money. Here's what I learned." And, that was powerful. My kids still talk about that. "Hey dad, you told us that if we invest, we may lose money," but it's gonna come back up when they can hear mom or dad be vulnerable and share real life stories. It let's them know they're normal, and this type of adversity is normal. One thing we know is that psychologists tell us the average person has three to four crisises per year interrupted by the occasional emergency. So, what that means is that the average person- I know the people on this podcast are not average, but the average person is either coming out of a crisis or coming into one interrupted by the occasional emergency.

Derrick Kinney (26:39):

What that means is that if you're not prepared for that and expecting it; it can continually derail you on your life and your money. But, I find that millionaires; people who have a success mentality; expect it. They're almost daring adversity, "come at me because I'm ready for you. I know you're coming, and I'm ready." And, when it comes, they take a very firm stance. They know this is part of the deal. What we know is if you're gonna make more money, you're going have more adversity, just take all the problems, have a multiplier on it, and realize this is really what life is about. This is how it works. You have to blaze your trail through those things, and realize there is just gonna be more of it.

Tony (27:22):

Those are inspiring words. Gives you a new perspective on how the money gets there and how to break free from it. I totally agree with you on the generational stuff. I think I was very fortunate because I was able to break free at age 25. I got my W2- I think you probably don't know my story, but I got my first W2 outta college; made $39 grand, but I was $16 grand in debt. I'm like, "that's really not a good plan. I don't really wanna live that way." So, I turned that around and started learning about cash and broke free. But, unfortunately some of my family members didn't come along with me on that journey. So, you're seeing the perpetuation of that cycle going forward now.

Tony (28:03):

So, you had- all of us had to- I think I would be interested to hear how you did this, but as you mentioned; people determine whether or not they're successful with money based on where they are right now. I agree with that; I think it's true. At some point we all had to- I don't care if you're Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, whoever you are; you had to come to a point where you started learning about money and how it works. So, that's the difference between; I think; or one of the differences between people who build wealth and those that don't. Because, the people that don't, they never learn the steps on how to build wealth. When did you start seeing that transition for you? Did you see a point; a definitive point in life; where you just started learning how to multiply your money?

Derrick Kinney (28:47):

There were two moments that really stand out to me. First of all, I didn't know that I could become a millionaire. That really wasn't a path that I thought I could be on, but I love to save money and I love to make money. So, when I started my financial planning practice, the sage advice somebody gave me was, "Derrick, become a friend with the phone because you're on the phone all the time. You get all these licenses. You study for people to hang up on you; tell you no." And then he said, "don't take any of it personally. Because, when people hang up on you, they're not criticizing you. You may have just revealed a crack in their situation. You may have made them feel vulnerable; whatever it is." So, I began to grow my business. And, what happened was I placed a high value on the expertise I had.

Derrick Kinney (29:39):

I had the mindset of a specialist; I did not want to act like a generalist. As I would talk to clients, I would share with them, "if you were to have a shoulder issue, would you want to go to the generalist who knows a lot about all of your whole body, or would you wanna go to the shoulder specialist that all they did every day was work on shoulders and knew shoulders in and out?" And they would always say, "I wanna work with the shoulder specialist." And, I would tell them, "of all the advisors in town, there's a lot to choose from, but I'm a small slice in the pie as a retirement income specialist; I'm a fee based advisor." So, I was able to charge clients more because of the additional value and expertise I had, but also how I position myself to solve their unique problems.

Derrick Kinney (30:29):

I would just tell; for people who want to be an aspiring millionaire; specialists are going to do better financially than generalists because of how they're perceived by their potential customers and how they perceive themselves. A specialist acts and talks and makes decisions differently than a generalist does. So, one of the things that I did is; I was able to defer some money into different funds and so forth. And I just kept saving, saving, saving. Well, as the market came back up, what I thought was $10,000 saved had grown to almost $100,000. That was an epiphany for me, thinking, "wow, I was saving, saving, saving, but compounding all of that really, really helped to grow, but also being in a business that had recurring revenue." So, what I realized was; in my business, as I brought on clients and they were satisfied and happy, and I continually added value to them; I received revenue every single year, and that revenue would keep going up the more value I kept providing to those clients.

Derrick Kinney (31:27):

So, it wasn't like I had a dry cleaner where I had to wait every day for people to walk in and pay me. This money was coming in whether I met with them once, twice, three times a year, but whenever it was just recurring revenue. So, that was a moment where I realized, "wow, there's a pathway to become a millionaire because there's this steady income stream that's happening. I'm adding value." The other thing that occurred was; I remember this vividly- this was when Visa first IPO'd; we'd all heard of Visa back in the day. I just had a feeling that, "this company's gonna do really, really well," because they already had all their payment structures in place. People used it. This was an easy investment. So, I had 10 clients that we had talked to, and the moment that it went public-

Derrick Kinney (32:21):

The day it began trading; I was in a hotel room on a trip. I had all the client names there. We had the money ready to go and began to buy, buy, buy. Bought nine times; bought mine last. And then, over the course of about 10 years, the $100,000 I put into that Visa stock grew to over a million dollars. So, not only did I work hard for the $100,000, but the market worked hard for me to grow that tenfold. It gave me a whole new perspective that, "not only am I the CEO of myself, but I'm also the CEO of my money and making sure I'm telling my money specifically what to do." We joke about, "you can't let your money hang out in the break room with no advice for guidance and spend itself on sodas and snacks."

Derrick Kinney (33:15):

You want to make sure every dollar coming in has been told, "here's where you're going, and here's what I want you to do." When you do that, you're making money twice. You're working hard for it; make sure the money's working as hard for you. So, those two things were very, very eye opening. And then, just realizing also that; when you hit that million dollar mark; it's an accomplishment; but also, you realize how little a million dollars actually generates as income. You really need to make the second million and the third million as soon as possible to keep the momentum going. But, you're a different person at each level because sometimes I meet people who realize, "Derrick, I don't wanna take as much risk now because what if I lose what I've built up?" So, they miss out on opportunities that they would've taken when they didn't have much money at all. If that makes sense.

Tony (34:04):

Oh, it definitely does. I think that it's counterintuitive to our emotional logic; if you wanna say it that way; we're afraid to lose something, so we hang onto it too tightly, and we lose it anyway in the end. But, I love what you're saying. There's a lot of principles in what you said. I think one that's coming to mind for me; two, I think actually. One is this concept of "10-X investments." How can you take a $100,000; in your case; and turn it into a million? I don't wanna make it sound easy, but it's easier than what people might think, because I think our natural minds are to go, "oh, that's an illusion. That's a magic trick. It doesn't really happen."

Tony (34:44):

But, I meet people every day that make that happen. It's not necessarily the way that some people teach it. You talked about an individual stock through Visa. You're not gonna get those kinds of returns out of a mutual fund. You're gonna get a much lower, slower process. You might get 10-X in your lifetime. You wouldn't get it; necessarily; in 10 years, like you said. I think the other thing which- I've got a friend, Cordell Frazier, he started late on his millionaire journey. He started at age 37 and became a millionaire at age 46. He didn't even know what investing was.

Derrick Kinney (35:22):


Tony (35:22):

Yes, he didn't even know what it was.

Tony (35:23):

He didn't do debt though. He was fortunate not to do that, but he had like $70,000 sitting in a savings account. And then, when he discovered what investing was, he can't get enough of it now. So, he's rewired his mind. I think that's one of the keys. If you wanna build real wealth is; you gotta rewire your mind that when you get some free money laying around or some extra cash laying around, you have to go, "where do need to stick this to multiply it?" I think that's the interesting thing; people who build a lot of wealth, that's how they think about, "how does this money I just got- how can I make it make more money?" Whereas the consumer mindset; or people that are- 78% of people living paycheck to paycheck, they're thinking like, "what can I go buy with this money? I just got this money. What can I go buy? What can I spend? What bill can I pay?"

Tony (36:01):

There's a rewiring- for you future millionaires listening to the show. That's a key element. It starts with your mindset. How do you think about your life? That's what Derrick's talking about. He didn't- I love your phrase, Derrick, where you said, "I didn't know that I could become a millionaire." I think that's where a lot of people are stuck today, and it's just not true. That's why I coined the phrase. "Anyone can become a millionaire. Why not you?" And, it's a little bit harder for some people. You have to admit, some people have different adversity and different problems, but the reality is I've seen enough stories. Now, I'm like, if an Asian guy can come into America; who spent three years in a Chinese concentration camp as a high school kid; can get out of that, and then come to America and become a millionaire- story after story that I hear. That's what I see. And, I love that. I love your message, Derrick, about doing more good. So, what's the title in your book again?

Derrick Kinney (37:03):

It's called Good Money Revolution; How to Make More Money to do More Good. The reason I called it that was; so many people think about charity, or they think about giving as, "if I give to an organization or a charitable group, I take money out of my account. Therefore I lose and they win." And, what I wanna do is completely shift people's mindset, because especially those people listening, who are a business owner, this concept that I've coined the generosity purpose, this cause that either you care deeply about, or you pull your customers and clients and ask them, "Hey, we've decided to give a portion of our proceeds to help a cause. That's important to you. What would you like that money to go toward?" What that does is; it's the greatest decommoditizing tool I have seen people use in business or in sales.

Derrick Kinney (37:56):

I mean, let's face it; for most people, if you're an attorney, an accountant in sales, a small business owner, whatever you're doing, a realtor; it's hard for people to determine what makes you different from this person. Everybody looks the same according to the customer. We all think we're different, but the customer sees us as indifferent. When you're giving and you're in the community, and you're a person known as a community servant who provides great value to people. Giving is not a band-aid to cover up really bad service. You need to be out there doing the hustle, really calling people back, meeting with them, delivering great value. But, if you're also making the community that you live and work in better, people want to refer people because there's a story. If I just say, "Hey, I'm a financial advisor." People's eyes would roll back in their heads.

Derrick Kinney (38:46):

But, when they begin to realize, "Hey, that's Derrick. He also helps people with their money, but he is helping make our community better." It's a story that invites people to wanna be a part of, but it helps separate me from all the other advisors in town. I think that principal can be applied to any business that wants to start. One thing I would say, especially for those aspiring millionaires; if you're working for someone right now, you have to expect value for every dollar you spend and you make. And, one of the things that I would tell you is don't just settle for the typical 4-5% raise; that is not gonna get you to the million dollars. You need to identify in your job right now. And this is gonna work because of the Great Resignation; people are leaving. There's jobs you could take right now to get paid more than what you're making right now.

Derrick Kinney (39:36):

For the most part, you wanna ask yourself, "how can I increase sales, reduce costs, and bring in more customers?" And if you can answer those questions about how you can do that in your job right now, taking that to your boss and saying, "look, I found a way to help us grow the business or save money. I wanna get a part of that." They're gonna be much more likely to say yes because it's not just a raise; it's profit sharing that you've set up. For example, one of the women that we counciled, she was a saver, saver, saver. Her family did very, very well. She was in charge of all the supplies at her company. And so, we came up with an idea of every dollar that she found a way to save on supplies. She went to her boss and worked out a deal where she got a dime of that savings.

Derrick Kinney (40:21):

So, her boss saved 90 cents; she was given 10 cents and her boss loved it. He was incentivizing out of no money of his own. This was just outta savings, a reward for this team member to become a dollar detective. So, wherever you're at right now, I just think it's game on. And, if you own the business, I would encourage you to empower your employees, whatever their role is to help you save money, make money, grow the business, and incentivize them based on the gains in the business. Doesn't cost you anymore payroll. This is out of the gains or the savings for you. It's a great way to build a culture where you're all working in the same direction.

Tony (41:02):

Yeah. That's great advice. And, tie in your purpose for making money. This is a shift for me, we'll wrap up with this; when I was building my wealth, and as you said; thinking about your ability to make money. Now, I was a $39,000 a year guy. My wife started praying for $70 grand. And then, we surpassed that and kept going, but I didn't come from a culture or a family that believed you could make $100,000, $200,000, or $300,000 a year. That was something that I stumbled into. But, I've never really; until the last few years; tied the idea of purpose behind my money. Before, it was like, "Hey, I made money. I gave money. I supported orphans. I supported human trafficking initiatives," things like that. But a real responsibility to go, "Hey, I have a responsibility; or a purpose; to make more money because I can do more good in the world."

Tony (41:54):

That's new thinking for me. I love the idea that you've got; that you've tied that so closely with your business model, and Good Money Revolution can carry that message forward. I'm a big believer that if the good people don't have the money, the bad people do, and we don't want what they want. We wanna make the world a better place, not a worse place. So, Derrick, man, it's been a great time talking to you today on the show. I really appreciate it. How are people gonna pick up a copy of Good Money Revolution and maybe give your podcast a listen to?

Derrick Kinney (42:25):

You can go on is where you can pick up Good Money Revolution. It did hit the USA Today and Wall Street Journal bestseller list just a few weeks ago. So, the message is getting received really well. Also, on Instagram, we post daily content on how to make more money and do more good. And, of course the Good Money podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts.

Tony (42:47):

Awesome. I just noticed, Donald Miller, he did the forward on your book.

Derrick Kinney (42:52):

Donald is a fantastic guy and he is a friend and author that I hold in regard. He helped pull this message outta me and bring it to life. I owe a lot to him.

Tony (43:04):

Donald came down frequently at the Ramsey organization. I was at one of the entree leadership events as a part of the team. I remember escorting; I think it was maybe San Antonio or Phoenix. Maybe it was a Phoenix event. But, Donald got in late and I had to escort him through the property to find where he needed to go. He's a wonderful man, and Derrick, once again. Thanks for being on the show. I look forward to talking to you again.

Derrick Kinney (43:27):

Thank you, Tony. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.


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